Lol, "no one but a bad guy?" Let's not forget the two officers with fifteen years on the force each that shot nine innocent people outside of the Empire State Building. Or, you know, the countless deaths at the hands of "good guys" and "responsible gun owners." How about the guy that fatally shot his son in the chest because he broke the primary rules of gun safety? But keep telling yourself guns are only dangerous in the hands of "bad guys." And what a hilariously binary classification to begin with.

So what is your answer to guns in this country Bob? Do we call a timeout and everyone, including the criminals, turn in our guns? Would that make you happy? There will always be unfortunate cases where guns are involved. Please be informed that the majority of cops are terrible shots. I have shot with them and it makes me wonder. Cops are human and just as prone to panic as anyone else, despite their training. Anyone who chooses to carry a weapon, owes it to their fellow citizens to be trained how to use it.

@Bob Loblaw, you have been listening to the messiah to much and his brown shirts,just go to the library and read up on Germany or Europe 1930's ,there are quite a few similarities that are happening here in the U.S. that happen back in that time,some are scary,and I'm sure the lefty liberal media won;t do a segment on it like 60 Minutes or 20-20, so you can laugh all you want,but I go back to the old saying "Becareful What You Wish For You Might Get It".

I agree. You can make all the laws you want it isn't going to stop a bad guy from getting a gun and committing a crime. The only thing that gun laws limit is the good guy from protecting themselves.

Let me ask a question of the Concealed Carry supporters - why don't we ensure that the guns don't get in the hands of the "bad guys" to begin with? Why are you against background checks, licensing, insuring & registration? @ Harry Callahan - Germany in '28s & again in '38 (under Hitler) greatly relaxed gun ownership laws for German citizens - they did prohibit Jews from owning weapons because jews, by legislation, had become non-citizens by that time. When Regan got shot (and almost killed) he was surrounded by extremely well trained agents as well as Capitol PD (the "good guys") who were heavily armed - and a single nut with a .22 cal. revolver managed to get off 6 shots, wounding 4 (including the President) - it was an unarmed civilian who finally subdued the gunman because he had run out of bullets - if he had had a Glock w/a 30 round magazine the Presdent would likely have been killed, along with a whole lot of others. @ Kris - right now all a "bad guy" has to do to obtain a weapon is to go to any of the hundreds of gun shows in one of the 33 states that don't require a background check, walk in w/cash & get a gun from a private (non FFL) dealer - how about we start with those laws?

Walter....why don't you pass a law that guaranties everyone that someone will not buy an automobile and the drink and drive? Myself and others would feel so much safer if you could handle that for us!

@ CCW - you didn't answer the question.

Walter, If your question made any sense, I might be able to give you a sensible answer. MANY more people die from auto accidents and heck, even baseball bats every year than guns. How many kids die from abortions that you liberals look the other way at every year? Gun violence is nothing compared to the mayhem cause by putting liberals in a place of power!

@Walter Bruun: I feel you're jumping to conclusions in your assumption that all concealed carry supporters are "against background checks, licensing, insuring & registration." I, for one, am a concealed carry supporter, but also feel that there should be exhaustive background checks, licensing, insuring, & registration. I would actually go on to suggest that there should be comprehensive psychological evaluations. Yes, it would cost more to own a gun, but I don't think the second amendment ever said that we have the right to bear arms and that it must be cheap to do so.

Why can't people develop their own thoughts on subjects such as this? Everyone seems to regurgitate whatever rhetoric their favorite pundit has spewed recently. Of course both sides are going to take polar-opposite sides on these issues. It's called posturing. When you go to buy a car, do you start at the highest price you're willing to pay?

I have to agree with CCW and Kris, while disagreeing with Bob and Walter, both of whom sketch scenarios and vaguely hint at data they think prove their points. In fact, there are no such data. This is not a topic for warrantless assertion. You cannot just suggest your own world of data or argue from compelling hypothetical scenarios you sketch in a comment box.

There are, according to varying studies in peer-reviewed academic journals, anywhere from 150,000 to 4 million instances per annum, depending upon how the data are acquired, of successful defensive gun use (DGU) in the United States. Many of these happen outside of the home. Compare those numbers to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports from 2011: 6,220 killed by handguns and 323 by rifle. At the low end, that's still 415 lives a day affected by or saved by firearm usage, and at the high end that's 11,000 lives a day.

Please educate yourselves. I would begin with the FBI’s Uniform Crime Data tables. I would move on to the 2004 National Academy of Sciences meta-analysis, a 328 page study aggregating 253 academic articles, 43 government publications, 99 books, and a survey of roughly 80 different gun-control laws. It concluded that *no correlation can be found between gun control and crime rates* -- meaning despite decades of trying, there is no evidence gun control works. It is entitled “Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review.”

BTW, this isn't a Rep vs Dem issue. 40% of Democrats are gun owners. I'm one of them.

I'll probably get beat up for this comment but, while I totally agree with you part of me doesn't want anyone to be able to carry. Do background checks really prove that someone won't use a gun in a bad way? I don't know what background checks show but just because someone has a good medical history and no prior crime history, doesn't mean they won't snap someday in the checkout line at the grocery store. I really don't want to be going to the store knowing that there are people walking around with a loaded weapon. That is putting a lot of faith in people that they will be responsible. Then again maybe most of them are good and you'd never know they had one on them. I wouldn't partake though, in 2013 to have to arm myself everywhere I go? What has our country come to? Maybe if bad guys know that people are armed they are less likely to try something but I am mainly referring to the unstable people. There have been many stories on line about legitimate gun owners who use their weapons in a bad way.

@Lucy do you know how many bad guys are already carrying to the places you go? Many of them. While your thoughts of someone snapping and having a gun. Guess what if someone is going to snap and want to do harm to others they will. But if that happened at a store right now we would be screwed. If that happened at a store and we were able to Conceal and Carry there would be how many guns pointed back at that one guy? Saving us all.

Lucy...you ask "what has our country become?" LIBERAL. Its the bleeding hearts that feel sorry for criminals at the expense of good people. I would rather live in a country where the bad guys are scared of the good guys. Maybe you like it the other way around. The concealed carry law in Illinois does not make weapons carriers into policemen, it only gives the carrier a chance to defend himself. If you choose to live in fear then, by all means, stay at home. I have been the victim of violent crime and I legally carry when I leave Illinois. I don't feel big and bad when I carry a gun, I pray I will never have to use it, but I will never again feel exposed and unsafe. The instances of law-abiding citizens using their guns in a bad way, as you describe, are very rare....good old fashioned American street violence happens several thousand times a day so I guess your argument is shot. You have a chioce...be a victim or not.

Shall not be infringed. That is what 2nd Amend. states. Even at time when it was amended the Pennsylvania rifle was so technologically advanced even more so than todays Glocks, etc...
When we awoke this morning 100 million gun owners did not go out and commit crimes with heir weapons. The only suggestion to all this anti- gun rhetoric and anti constitutionalists is to leave and go to a so called safer nation. We still allow you to leave! However, once they have control of your guns they will not allow you to leave. They the gov't will have them pointed at you, inside your government ruled nation, not allowing you leave. Sounds far fetched and radical doesn't it? Ask the folks from Eastern Europe. But can happen because people who want to be controlled will be controlled. So please, leave us independent types alone and go live in your utopia in some far fetched land where you think you will be safer.

That's why we need federal laws, because all gun free zones are bordered by areas that aren't gun free. 1/2 of the guns used in crime is Chicago is from out of the area.

I agree, leave the guns alone. I think they need to focus on the mind-bending prescription meds for depression, anxiety, etc. a lot more, and make the psych docs a lot more accountable for their patients. Period.

@MaryfromIL

Not all gang members have arrest records, they are able to purchase guns for other gang members.

www.suntimes.com/.../crime/.../chicago-gangs-dont-have-to-go-far-t...

Here we go again with the comparisons to Nazi Germany and drunk driving. Why bother with the conversation if some people don't deal in reality and aren't willing to even compromise on anything. Paranoia rules their world.

@ Stones I never liked the driving/gun argumnet. But NOW times have changed. Driving is NOW A RIGHT in IL.,no longer a privilige. When they give ilegal's the RIGHT to drive it now can be a IL. argument.
For my RIGHT for a concael carry permit I MUST be fingerprinted. For the RIGHT to drive in IL. you do not.
It was the politicians who used THE RIGHT TO DRIVE in getting the law passed

I agree totally with CCW. Criminals will always have a way to get guns, there's no way around it. Why should my rights be taken away because of the nuts out there. I want to feel safe when I leave my home and have a way to defend myself at all times. Everyone that wants to carry a handgun should have to go through training and safety. And anyone who's been in trouble with the law should be denied. Do you honestly think that if a criminal has any doubt if you have a gun or not that he/she would take the chance? I don't think so. I'd rather be safe then sorry. Nobody's telling you that you must carry....so if you are against it then don't carry but don't take away MY RIGHT to carry one!!!

"MANY more people die from auto accidents and heck, even baseball bats every year than guns."

Hmmm, not so much.
Homicides 2011:
Total Firearm Deaths: 8,583 (of which 6,220 were handguns)
vs.
"Blunt Objects" i.e., Bats: 496

Lest pesky facts get called into question, here's a link:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

I'm all for healthy debate, but let's not make stuff up just to attempt to prove a nonsensical point.

How can you possibly not trust the government to watch out for our best interest, after all they do know what is best for all of us. Just look how well they have handled the BUDGET,SOCIAL SECURITY,AND PENSIONS, not to mention how well they have kept the promise of no increase in taxes or health care. I guess you're all a bunch of non- believers huh?

Kathy, if you really want to know how many firearms are used by civilians in crisis situations, visit the NRA website and click on The Armed Citizen. There are literally thousands of examples of how people have used guns to successfully save themselves or others in high-stress situations. Can I ask why you think more of a common criminals life than you do of a law-abiding citizen? Criminals carry guns and all the gun laws in the country do not dissuade them from doing so, so why do liberals find it so preposterous that we poor unwashed peasants should be able to defend ourselves? I certainly know people who should not even be allowed to own guns, much less carry them, but it is their RIGHT to do so that is guaranteed by the Constitution of this country. I will never understand why so many people are more than willing to give up their Rights for the false belief that the government will keep them safe. Carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility that no one should take lightly and there are people in the world who are responsible enough to be trusted with that responsibility. Most intellegent people agree on sensible gun laws and the abilility to defend themselves. What part of that don't liberals understand? Millions of law-abiding. armed Americans killed no one last night.

@ Katherine, You need to take your liberal blinders off and look at true facts. Everyday an armed citizen with a gun saves there own life or someone else's. Case in point, The oregon mall incident a few months back. As the network news doesn't broadcast the entire story (imagine that) a man with a CCW drew on the assailant but didn't have a clean shot. When the perp saw this he took his own life. Good guys with a gun 1, deranged maniac dead. Do yourself a favor and research your own news instead of watching the propaganda on the networks.

http://minutemennews.com/2012/12/oregon-mall-shooting-brave-citizen-with-concealed-carry-may-have-saved-lives/

CCW wants you to go the the gun manfacturers lobbying arm (NRA) website to get "facts" on guns, and merk wants you to go the a "minuteman" website. We would have a lot more ACTUAL facts at our disposal about gun safety and effects of gun ownership by "law abiding" citizens, but Republicans in Congress - in their infinite wisdom - decided to defund the Centers for Disease Control's research into the subject, maybe they want us to rely soley on the "unbiased" folks at the NRA & "minutemen" sites. Oh, and merk - that article about the guy in the mall, there were no other witnesses & the guy with the gun (who never fired a shot) wasn't sure the gunman even saw him - that would be a "fail".

Walter, you can liberalize all you want but you are going to get your hat handed to you in this forum. Most people who believe in what this country was founded on will stand on the side of guns any day. If you would, please post a sign in your yard stating that you are proudly gun free and the rest of us are all slobbering gun-nuts. Some of us still honor the Founders of this country and revere the Constitution as the Supreme law of the Land and God the Supreme being in the universe. You liberals have moved so far from the Bible that you believe the moral decay of this country, while sickening, is perfectly ok.

Katherine and Walter. If you don't want to carry a concealed firearm, then don't. But why do you want to interfere with those of us to decided to take that responsibility? It has no effect on you. Is it just passive/aggressive meanness?

@ CCW - I never said I was gun free & i never said I was against guns - why don't you directly answer my statements? I know why, because you can't in any logical fashion. The Constitution's 2nd Amendment reads "A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the protection of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". The "Well Regulated" part refers to US Constitution, Article I, Section 8, clauses 14 - 16, I suggest you read it. Yes, you will "stand on the side of guns anyday" but not on the side of murdered schoolchildren. There is a patchwork of gun laws in this country that enable crooks and crazies access to all kinds of weapons, all one needs to do is cross the border into Indiana to purchase a weapon at a gun show with no background check - the Constitution clearly gives the US Congress the responsibility to regulate arms & who should be able to access them.

What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you get? All law-abiding gun owners want to tighten up the screening process of who can legally own a firearm. That just makes sense as the Lamestream media portrays ALL gun owners as violent crazies when someone blows an o-ring and goes on a shooting rampage. I am not advocating handing a loaded weapon to everyone like you make it sound.

ccw, just because it is a right doesn't mean you have to own a gun. You say you know people who should'nt own a gun but do because it's their right. That right there shows it's wrong. I don't give up my rights by not owning a gun. I have the right not to. Not many realize the responsiblity of owning a gun, that is why I don't want everyone to own one, just because it is their right to do so.

Lucy...I also know people who drink themselves into a stupor and then climb into their 3000 pound missle and get on the road with the rest of us. Do we ban cars because someone MIGHT get drunk and drive? You have a better chance of getting killed by a drunk driver than you do a concealed weapons holder...how does that make you feel? Can you agree that we have a serious irresponsibility problem in this country or do you feel ok knowing that at any time of the day you could be killed or seriously injured by a drunk? If someone is going to flip out with a gun, I want the chance to shoot back but I know the chances of a law-abiding citizen doing that is so rare that it is almost non-existant. Like I said earlier...IF YOU TRAVEL OUT OF ILLINOIS , YOU ARE IN A STATE WHERE PEOPLE ARE CARRYING GUNS!!

Whats the matter Naperville mom, was I the easiest target for a drive-by smear attack? If you don't have a constructive comment to add then you should keep your arguments up there in Snob City.

Katherine and Walter,
Look up the Virginia School shooting stopped by law school students. Check out ALL the media sources. You'll find that 2 of those students were ARMED when they stopped the school shooting and detained the shooter for police.

@ DK - the problem with "enforcing the current laws on the books" is that 33 states do not require background checks by non-FFL (Licensed Federal Firearms dealers) sellers - who account for about 25% of the sales at gun shows. That's where (for the most part) "bad guys" get their guns. Make it harder for thugs to get guns & they won't be able to get as many! BTW - Adam Lanza's mom was a "law abiding" citizen - her guns certainly didn't protect her.

Adam Lanza was mentally defective, was his mother supposed to hold a gun on him while at her home? He was not legally able to own guns and killed his own mother to get hers. My God, you liberals and you ass-backwards "reasoning" is astounding!

The fact that Mrs. Lanza was a "law abiding" gun owner, and her multitude of guns could not protect her should wake you people up. She was supposed to be "responsible" yet kept high powered weapons in a home where a mentally unstable and dangerous individual lived - who then turned her own weapon on her - this happens more times than you would like to admit. 26 families, whose lives are forever changed, have paid for her decision.

Well Walter, I would love to sit and talk guns all day but I have things to do. We will be carrying concealed handguns on June 9th of this year. whether you like it or not. The courts have ruled in our favor so you control freaks can go suck hind tit...AGAIN! Have a great day!

I wouldn't be so sure we'll be conceal carrying on June 9 or 10. The 7th Circuit said they have to craft a law by then. God only knows what kind of law the legislature is going to craft, mainly when it will take effect. Will it be July 1? January 1, 2014?

CCW--you are beginning to sound like an individual who may not pass a mental health assessment (like the one you mentioned in your first post). You are doing the pro-gun folks a disservice and undermining a useful discussion of the topic for everyone.

"One armed mentally ill person or criminal does not have a chance in a room full of armed sane people."

It worked out really well for that sniper guy who was killed at a gun range a couple of weeks ago. He was armed. So was everyone around him.

I'm not against people owning and carrying weapons by the way. It just should be very strictly regulated. The "gun show loophole" is also super ridiculous. I can't believe it has stayed open as long as it has.

Spencer- All the accounts of Chris Kyle's murder that I have read seem to infer that the 3 guys were ALONE at a rural gun range and that both victims were shot multiple times at point blank range.... possibly the 2 guys weren't even facing their killer?

What most of the anti-gunners forget is that if you travel outside of The Peoples Republic of Illinois is that they are automatically in a concealed carry state, and all of the bloodshed and mayhem that they say will happen here, never happens anywhere else, or should I say, rarely happens anywhere else. Leave Illinois and you are surrounded by people packing guns. Hows that argument working for them?

@ CCW - per FBI statistics, Chicago's gun murder rate is no.31 out of US cities - you know who is no. 1? New Orleans, where they have both concealed & open carry - their murder rate is almost 3 times that of Chicago.

Does it say anywhere in those statistics how many legal CCW permit holders are the victims of those murders, or do you think it is ghetto crime like it is in Chicago? Better get some more statistics there bud.

There's a debate because of people like Rahm Emanuel and other liberals controlling Chicago who seem to think they control the rest of the state. It's crazy, but no surprise.

In 33 states anyone can go to a gun show & buy a weapon at a gun show with no background check - where do you think the "bad guys" get their guns? "15 thousand deaths..." you might think differenlty if one of those 15,000 was your child in the 1st grade. Adam Lanza's mother was a law abiding citizen - did her guns protect her?

Like it or not Walter...we will be packing come June 9th. You can try to figure out who is carrying and give them a good scolding.

Wlater,
Being at a gun show does not change the law. All FFL dealers MUST do a background check, regardless of where the transaction takes place in ALL 50 states.

Illegal Straw Purchases, like ATF was allowing to happen under Fast and Furious, are a major source of illegal guns. Those straw purchases have been felonies for decades.

But you wouldn't suggest eliminating "drug-free zones" around schools, I'm sure. The zone heightens penalties for drug offenses. However, even in a drug-free zone, a student with a prescription drug can leave his/her medication with the nurse to be appropriately administered. Perhaps there are sensible solutions like this to the gun issue as well.

As far as I know retired law enforcement are not allowed to carry in Illinois once their employment has ended. My father was CPD.

You better check to see if you were really law enforcement.

Have your dad go here:
http://www.irocc.org
It will explain the process and he can submit an application.

@ german - the CDC has had their funding to research gun related deaths and accidents cut by Republicans in Congress for the last several years, so we don't really have any recent, accurate numbers for gun related incidents. Swimming pools are regulated - if you have a pool & a kid dies in it you're sure going to be raked over the coals & probably sued. Swimming pools & autos have a primary purpose other than killing, a firearms' primary purpose is to kill. Firearms should be regulated just like autos - you should have to take a test, make sure you're physicaly & mentally stable, you should register & insure it & renew every 3 yrs or so.

You mention accidental drowning, and that nobody is demanding that swimming pools be banned. I don't think anyone here is talking about accidental shootings. I find it silly to compare something accidental to something intentional.

That's the system used by the politically connected. They are deputized as auxiliary deputies or some such and are allowed to carry. They don't want you to be as safe as the important people.

Agenda indeed---to disarm America. Then what?

The National Safety Council keeps accurate statistics. Why would the CDC need to be funded to perform political research?

How about that---like the "honorable" Bobby Rush---or how about Jesse Jackson Jr.? (he got "busted" for who he really is) Then there's Blago whatever---bet he packed a gun. Isn't it crazy who they will allow to rule and reign?!

BSERUS
Good thinking brotha.........blame the caucasians for all the woes
Could it be that they have more common sense than the Drug dealers, Pimps
and Gang bangers doing the majority of killing in CHA'CONGO
So let's blame them for being too law abiding and civilized !!

50 years ago - hmm, 1963 - what event happened in 1963? Oh yeah - JFK was assassinated! Blacks at the time probably wouldn't agree with your assessment about "less violence" in that era. A gun's primary purpose is to kill something, an axe's is to chop wood - big difference.

Ask Walter up there^^^^...he seems to have all the answers. I'll bet my tinfoil hat that he is one of those who fled the city...and brought all of his bad habits with him.

@ CCW - there are ways to make sure that bad guys and mentally unfit people have a harder time accessing weapons - of course they won't completely be prevented, but presently it's very easy for anyone to get a weapon in the 33 states that don't require background checks. Require background checks, licensing, registration & insurance for every firearms that's solde in the US - that should be required for licensed gun dealers and also for individual sellers.

Walter,
You're forgetting that every firearm sale by a Federal Firearms Licensee (dealer)MUST include a background check, in ALL 50 states.

Tony, please go to second city cop site It's a Chicago Cop blog. You can read all about your "successful" laws where criminals get the maximum sentance. You can also check out the other sites you can go to on this site. Sorry, It will prove that you are wrong. You wil read about felon after felon out and about commiting crimes.

We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”
― Ronald Reagan

Except for the gun owners who are violating Federal Law by making illegal straw purchases. Amazing how little goes into the investigation and prosecution of those.

Your slogan is not compelling.

Kimberly, last year in Naperville a school teacher was stabbed at Frankie's Blue Room, remember that? The thought has crossed my mind, "What if he had had a gun," a semiautomatic one with 30 rounds... Tragedy worse than what we had right? Now, what if the bouncer had had a gun? Would the drunken wretch have even pulled out a knife? What if the bouncers had Tasers at least. I want protection too, but not in the form of something that gives the enemy the advantage. I'm sending a daughter out of "Mayberry" in the fall. The other day she cut someone off at the MacDonalds on Ogden (not intentionally). The guy partially rolled down his tinted windows and with a his fingers pointed pretends to shoot her. Whatever happened to beeping, flippin the bird? Geez, really, shooting at my girl? She was shaken up by it.

You watch too much TV.

@Oldeegee...Your right thats just a TV scenario. It never just happens in real life....OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!

oldeegee - there was an incident in Wheaton, a few days ago, where a stranger entered a house and when confronted said "I have the wrong address". It does happen.

The Founders of this country recognized the need for its citizens to be armed for only one purpose: the overthrow a tyrranical government, which we have right now. I am convinced the Founding Fathers would want us armed more now than ever before in history. I guess you were absent the day they taught History in school.

Our Founding Fathers were well aware of the constant improvements in firearm technology. Rifle improvements helped us win the Revolutionary War. Cannons used in the war were mostly borrowed from private citizens.
The Federalist Papers also discuss this issue at length. "Shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. Our Founders were very bright, and lacked neither imagination or foresight. They also knew their history and understood very well what governments do to unarmed populaces. They believed, as I do, that the only way a free people can remain that way is if they have the ability to defend themselves.

You didn't mention handguns did you ?

We are the leading developed country by way of firearm deaths.

There are numerous incidents of bad cops who slip through the cracks. Go to Youtube or Copwatch if you don't believe me. There was a day when cops were respected but now they are feared. Something is wrong with that, no?

He didn't go "nuts", He's out for revenge

Our government and all the thieves and liberal idiots that run it, is why we are the laughing stock of the world. Guns are everywhere in the world, it is not just an American thing. Last night I slept with a gun in my nightstand and it did not kill me so how do you say that guns kill people? Or did you mean that a person killed another person with a gun? Go to the end of the line and come back when you have an actual argument.

@CCW,
Guns are not owned by private citizens everywhere in the developed and civilized world. Get your facts straight before commenting. But then again, if you did that, you wouldn't be the gun toting, NRA worshiping idiot you appear to be.
Yes, people pull the trigger, but if those guns were not so readily available, heat of the moment killings and crimes of passion would not occur. The accidental injuries would drop as would the number of suicides.
Wake up you feeble minded moron!

@ Jeff: I'm not going to do your homework for you. However, you say that guns are not owned by private citizens elsewhere in the developed and civilized world.

Maybe you should take a look at Canada. Perhaps they don't meet your definition of developed and civilized I guess. All they need for most firearms is a PAL, a license similar to our FOID.

Jeff, in response to your "heat of the moment/crimes of passion" comment, what EXACTLY is stopping a person from committing that crime with or WITHOUT a gun? Seems to me that if someone is that out of balance, they are going to pick up whatever is handy? Maybe a hammer or a knife or a baseball bat OR a gun..... now if someone was coming at you (in the "heat of the moment") with a baseball bat (pretty deadly, look up the stats) how are you going to defend yourself? With a spoon?

@Jeff
Number of guns per capita by country:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

Gun ownership per country:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/.../gun...ownership/table/

Jeff,
Your psuedo-statistic only includes intruders KILLED. It completely ignores MILLIONS of lawful uses of firearms by civilians defending their lives and their loved ones WITHOUT killing the violent criminal.

My shotgun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car too! Since 1974 the shotgun has been well behaved, not once has it jumped out of the closet and shot someone.

Hey!!! my .270, .243, .22, .50cal or my 12ga haven't killed anyone either!! (well, that I know of anyway, maybe they sneak out at night and cause mayhem?)

That background check comment is right on target! :D Yet he gets away with it. Gun control is about an evil agenda to disarm us, it really is. People, don't believe the liberal media---they are just capitalizing on crises---remember Rahm's comment? Never, ever wate a good crisis! Don't let them stir your emotions or stimulate fear! It's all in their plan to control.

@nick - and the left-wing liberals would respond to you and say, 'that would never happen HERE.' Which is exactly what they said in all your above examples. If anyone thinks that the Democrats aren't trying to move from background checks to registration, to confiscation, then I've got a bridge I want to sell you. Gun control is not about guns. It's about control. Remember, slaves aren't allowed to have guns.

Agree. Plus, insurance, much like car insurance. These are solutions! I really believe that we can come up with sensible gun management if we just stop hurling insults.

What about schools and universities Patrick? Should we have a guard(s), but be otherwise gun-free? Can you see a freshmen dorm packed with 19 year olds carrying guns? I have a daughter going to college in Chicago in the fall so safety is on my mind.

Maybe folks like Skully, retired and licensed to carry (hopefully background checked and mentally stable) should be hired by our schools to protect our kids. I went to a school that had a metal detector for admittance, armed guards (who were really nice), and barbed-wire fencing. I felt safer inside the school than out. However, I am completely opposed to arming school teachers.

WOW A law abiding citizen joining gangsters. crazies with guns Nobody if going to force you to carry. Go read the proposed bill HB0997 Then come back and talk with us OK I have a Florida carry permit,and in the traing I went through for it I did learn new things. I have been around firearms my whole life almost 60 years. Years ago in a I shot about once a month with a lot of Cops,out shot most of them. Now I live in kendall county and if I want I can go shot in my backyard (yes I checked it's legal where I live) so know I can practice anytime I want. I keep guns locked up except for 2 for home protection. When not at home all guns locked up. What do you want us fat old beer gut John Waynes to do??

http://www.handgunlaw.us/LicMaps/ccwmap.php
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/travel/
3 places to start

Now Tom don't scare them with the truth And yes your point if a FACT

this video is rather shocking but it Nutshells what pro gun people feel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXm9_MwQBm0

the point the goal is to effect a good arrest and not to act as bodyguards While some cops may decide to do so its always in the back of there mind all these things i worfk for may disappear in some suit .... The police have no legal duty to protect you

That is actually a false statement. The Weimar Republic that was the name of the German Government from 1919 to 1932 had very strict gun control due to the Treaty of Versailles - basically all german citizens were disarmed. In 1928 the laws regarding firearms were relaxed, citizens 20 and over were able to have rifles and handuns, but they were required to be registered. In 1938 (under Hitler) the laws were relaxed even further - the age of ownership was lowered so that citizens 18 & above could have guns, rifles & shotguns no longer needed to be registered and large blocks of people (Nazi party members & etc.) could have a handgun without registering it. Note tha I said "citizens" - in that same year (1938) German citizenship of Jews was revoked.

Right Walter,
Hitler never took firearms from Jews, Poles, Gypsies, etc. who were being marched off to concentration camps. He did confiscate guns. He may not have been the first, but he did do it.

Martha Most people that own weapons are trained and train the family in safety. Accidents happen. YOU want goverment to engage in a safety campaign about firearms. Most Liberals want a complete ban on firearms.
LOOK at goverment,today nancy pelosi stated she was in favor of the FIRST amendment about firearms. Yes granted it was a slip,but if a Rep.sliped like this it would be front page news.

Well some say if a new law is not in place they will be able to carry. But truthfully haveing taken the firearms course and learnig some things I would say a training course is welcome. Having a FOID card is not the same as conceal carry. You jsut can't have people with no training carry. Hopefully some that slipped through the cracks on FOID cards will be caught with concael carry restirctions and everyone will be safer. Safety is all in traning. You can't get type training from a book or video. I am getting close to 60 and try to learn somthing new everyday

AS a FOID Card Holder, I agree training and testing to qualify is a must!

Because states CANNOT pass laws that violate the Constitution.

Not exactly, it says anything that is not specified for congress (federal government) to handle, it's to be handled by the state (local government)

The US Congress regulates the states' Militias (US Constitution Article I, Section 8, clauses 14 - 16), that is what the "Well regulated Milita" refers to in the 2nd Amendment.

Not disagreeing with you, but owning guns now a days & forming a milita in the 1800's, not the same thing, nor what anyone as refurring too. But they both act as a detourant. (:

They are trying to ban some guns. I'd like to know a time where, when you give in an inch & they didn't want a foot? Eventually. Are you satisfied that you are accurately represented in your current government?

Uh yes they are... if you understand firearms, you would see that some of the bills out there are very carefully written... "assault rifle" is a made up BS term the list of "features" they are providing would ban 80% of our weapons... including pump shot guns, and anything capable of using a magazine or ammunition feeding device. and any firearm capable of holding 7 rounds this include 1 in the chamber for anything that really can hold 6 rounds... WHY BAN ANYTHING? EVEN FULL AUTOMATIC WEAPONS ARE LEGAL (IF YOU HOLD A CLASS III)

@Katt: I read the article you quoted and also read the Examiner article by Ryan Keller that it was based on. I even went as far to look at the RFQ on the fedbid.com site that Keller references and even links to. It appears that Mr. Keller can't do simple arithmetic as the RFQ merely solicits a bid for 240,000 rounds of ammunition. That or he was deliberately distorting the facts. I'm prone to believe the latter.

This is exactly how simply regurgitating information without first checking sources can set everyone off in a panic. But I guess that's what it's designed to do.

as a former 1st Cav soldier I feel the same. Isn't it strange - they trained us and made us carry a weapon - now here in Illnois we can't. Tax us like citizens and treat us like subjects.

Mr. Libertarian For a CCW a saftey course is required as per IL HB0997 Please google IL. HB0997 and it will come up. It's a long read. This is the first draft I think.
Like I stated before I took a NRA safety course to get my FL. Carry permit and learned some new things. People will slip through the cracks in the FOID background checks and probably some will slip through on CCW.

Skully,

Thanks for the info! I will definitely read up on HB0997. I admit I haven't followed it as closely as I should; just lack of free time on my part.

A safety course is never a bad idea, and I'm happy to see the safety courses are a part of the license. As is the ability to place rounds on a target, which seems to be similar to what law enforcement must be capable of.

This is all I could find pertaining to police training, in the sort time I had to search for it. http://www.ptb.state.il.us/pdf/pa94103.pdf I'm guessing the 70% minimum passing score for police implies round placement, as well as timing.

The CCW license, as proposed, include a 70% on-target placement of rounds fired.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=85&GA=98&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=997&GAID=12&LegID=71413&SpecSess=&Session=

People will unfortunately always slip through the cracks.

Also ask the question "Are the very politicians who threaten our 2nd Amendment rights, who all to frequently have concealed weapons on their person OR have armed bodyguards, any more important nor should they have greater rights to self-protections than you and your family." I cannot believe any intelligent, sane person would agree they should have greater rights than the private citizen.

Could not have stated it any better. Illinois pols need to get their mess they made cleaned up. Worry about having the worst state credit rating, that should be a priority. Draconian gun laws do not work, never have, never will.

What polititian wants you to carry and muzzle loading, gun powder gun? The same ones that fel that women have anti-rape muscles... Funny thing is, one of those statements are true...

Does that include the escaped slaves that the militia were to round up? When u refer to modern weapon I assume it means any weapon that Ammoland can sell including M 4 CARBINES, GLOCK 22-23 like any local law enforcement has, I personally like any Ruger for shoulder or ankle and Glock for quick drawing but balk at carbines for Deer hunting or rounding up escaped slaves!

Rick I wish people would do things with a open mind but the MSM, IMHO is Anti Gun. Most won't look @ NRA website either. People can also go to Illinoiscarry.com for information. As I have stated before a lot of question can be answered if they look up IL. HB0997

Non of this is true... You idiots repeat a bunch of garbage, make up unsupported claims and throw the slaughter of jews around when it satifies your argument. No one is taking your guns. No amendment is protected from being altered and changed. This is about public saftey, not that the US and it's socialist, commie, marxist, Kenyan leader is going to come in and take over with tyranical rule.
I will admit you people are entertaining.

That's dumber than most of the crap you put on here...

Bob you called CCW a idiot @ 6:14 on Feb 10 and agian called us idiots @ 8:15 this morning

Also as I've stated before, how much respect do most people have for each other. Why do kids join gangs? A lot of our issues with gun violence in Chicago is gang related. Lets get to the root of the problem and reduce the base causes of a lot of crime. Gang violence, I personally believe, is related to the lack of respect for each other, bullying, and a need to feel wanted and liked. Other crimes are based off of greed. Why do people steal and rob from others? GREED. These crimes will be committed no matter what if the opportunity presents itself and the criminal will pursue these crimes and use whatever means are at their disposal, even if they are not allowed to possess a firearm they will find one in some way.

Dave-you said you want to get to the root problem. That's exactly what the local politicians in Chicago DON"T want to do! The cause is not handguns, assault weapons, no CCW, too few police. Those are symptoms. The root cause is, long ago, the Democrats who ruled Chicago. Years ago the Dems instituted the ADC program, which is ‘aid for dependent children’. Children from single-parent (read: mother) households were given ADC payments to support them, because their father wouldn’t, and their mother couldn’t/wouldn’t. The payments were based on number of children: more kids, more money. And the Democrats KNEW that if these little babies reached voting age, they were DEMOCRATS. Well, when the welfare mothers figured this out, they knew that more babies meant more money and the Dems knew it meant more votes. Today, 72% of the black babies born in Chicago are born to un-married mothers. The kids get NO life skills, no home parenting, and no education in Chicago schools. With no skills, they are easily recruited into one of the gangs that run the drugs and prostitution in Chicago. And the Democrats pretend we have a gun control problem, to avoid looking at the ROOT CAUSE That’s only a symptom of what happens when the illiterate masses have no skills and no job prospects - they join gangs, sell drugs, take drugs, and kill rival gang members. The problem evolved over 40 years and the politicians think that passing some gun laws will fix the problem.

Teachers should be able to carry. Teachers in I believe Utah go to a class for conceal carry in school.

Students under 18 should not be allowed the firearms, and what of these schools with security systems to prevent students from bringing weapons in like metal detectors? How do they get past them? I can think of ways to by-pass these security checkpoints but will NOT disclose them except to appropriate parties. Colleges if a student wishes to carry a firearm in a concealed fashion and they have passed the requirements (IL requires a FOID card and for CC the CC requirements). Heck students have drugs in their dorms and those are supposed to be drug free zones. A responsible CC owner would only be using their weapons in self defense, which a lot of people think it will be like the Wild West. When I get my CC it will be strictly used in self-defense. Let the police do the offensive role. But they will NOT be there in the instant an incident happens. Procedures should be put in place for those personnel who are staff for example on what the ROE are in that situation. Again it is a self-defense concept, not a search-and-destroy mission for the person.

Transfer to Calumet or the one near Gately where they have Glocks and ankle holsters with a 380!

yer right Tired that's why I go to Trader Joe's or Meijers!.

Well it will be a WHEN not an if cause it is already in process. Renewals I have no problem with, except it should be something like 2-3 years. For an EMT in the state of IL its a 4 year license with 120 hours of CE in there. National Registry its 2 years with 72 hours. I have no problem with mandatory training for CC, but there should be no insurance requirement. Insurance should be offered and recommended, but the right to bear arms is a right and not a privilege like driving a car is a privilege. I would recommend insurance for the cost of the legal fees and some for the accidental part, but not require it. USCCA offers this "insurance" for its members at different levels. Making the requirement for being a $1M amount is just satisfying the lawsuit happy people. This country would not be so lawsuit happy. Again back to my main point of RESPONSIBILITY. If gang members are already doing the CC without the laws in place and without insurance, why would a law abiding American citizen be required to possess the insurance to protect themselves from such unlawful people.

Mandatory insurance laws work great in IL. don't they.
@ Dave In IL. when Ileagals and able to get drivers Licenses driving is no longer a privilege,it's a right. Many elected used the they have "the right to drive" in getting this passed. As I posted before I hated the driving/gun argument but as it will become a RIGHT in IL. in can be used now.

Frank Penalties/laws for gun misuse are there,most times are pled down. Jails are full and we have no place to put people that break laws. It's a sad situation.
Go check out the second city website it's a interesting blog from Cops on the street.

I see you've posted this a couple of times. I can't tell if you think it's a good thing or a bad thing.

I am for training also and would encourage it. Safety and training. Heck even with Airsoft guns which are legal to possess but not carry unless in a gun bag, etc, safety is a major concern when on the field. A lot are common sense rules. Being taught to properly respect the firearm (talking about real guns now), and the dangers of it, when to use it, how to use it, how to handle a situation when involving a police officer encounter to show you are not the threat in a situation that it was required. Remember the idea is CC for self-defense, not for playing hero (except when it was a self-defense action).

I agree 100% that its people not guns. We don't need, any "violation" of the Constitution.
I also agree that mental health should be tackled WAY MORE.
but if you want to talk about the protecting rights, we have the right to outsource jobs overseas, well the businesses do. It's all about making the most revenue. Even the government needs to make revenue. I look at it this way, everyone get taxes taken out of their paychecks, can't argue that people individually don't pay taxes. Businesses, get tax cuts.... like Americans. The tax cuts big businesses get, is the getting interest on your money at a bank. If you keep your money in the bank you'll get more, if you keep your business here & not send jobs overseas, well give you a tax break, but it's okay because all your employees will be paying taxes (along with everyone) & they will have jobs, & contributing to society. Sounds like a win/win to me.
& all about revenue, even the news. Americans are selfish, & if they want something so bad, nothing is going to stop them. I hear the entitlement for sure. It's pathetic, I'm sure this country was built on entitlement & not hard work....oh wait.

PART 1

I don't understand why people who think that way think this country will become better, under that thinking. But back to the gun issue. Many people have great ideas, that it should be regulated more, background checks, & training classes, but if the government makes it mandatory, normally they have to pay for some of it, or raise taxes. State. But Illinois I believe just went to A, (might still be AA.) we are broke as a joke. There is NO MONEY. So this s defiantly an issue that needs to be tackled thinking outside the box, & we all know those Illinois politicians don't do that.

PART 2

ALS I agree with you on this quote:
"I hear the entitlement for sure. It's pathetic, I'm sure this country was built on entitlement & not hard work....oh wait."
To quote Mark Levin the other night on XM radio. (Yes I did write this down cause it's so true) "Liberty is hard work!" We are not entitled to our freedoms, we need to maintain those freedoms instead of just giving them up to a government to regulate. What does that mean for us citizens. As I stated before, be responsible for yourselves and your actions. Don't blame someone else for your faults. Take the responsibility and resolve and fix the issue. All comes down to those dreaded R words every time. And another one which my economics teacher in high school put up on the board: TINSTAAFL (There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch). We need to work for not only the money, but also in the sense of liberty and freedom, need to work for that. It isn't just granted to us. It is something we deserve, but need to prove we actually deserve it and can responsibly handle it.

Hi Mr. Libertarian, I agree with you about the breakdown of family as being a factor in all this. However, we cannot mandate that people stay married or stay home to raise their children. That is the stuff of God and faith.

But something we can do is improve our mental health services. What is a mother to do with a mentally unstable child who becomes an adult and is still "mainstreamed." All the support offered by the school and child services falls away, and you have an Adam Lanza. I know from a friend how a mother can fear her own mentally-challenged child who is suddenly taller and stronger than she is, and is prone to outbursts. What are the options for these parents, and what is the cost of care for an indefinite number of years? And if they own a gun, shouldn't it be safeguarded somehow?

@ ALS

Yes, we do have the right to trade with other countries. I only stated that as one possible component of complex issue.

Stringent background checks and training should definitely go into CCW licenses. Insurance should be an option, not required.

@ Naperville Mom

We certainly should not mandate people stay married. I know of several instances where divorce was a very good choice. Of course, I've also seen people treat their marriages as disposable; which is sad when there's kids involved.

I completely agree that the mental health system needs improvement, and a lot more funding and research. I don't know exactly what choices parents of mentally challenged kids have, but I do know it's not enough. One thing is for sure, guns that share a home with mentally challenged people should be safeguarded.

Also, kids that are labelled ADD/ADHD should not automatically be given medication. Techniques should be developed to teach/engage them first. Medication should be an absolute last resort, not the first attempt at a solution.

---

My main point is we need to figure out why people are snapping. I cited a few possible reasons. Perhaps some of them are petty, like the lousy TV shows. Perhaps not.

That's an old joke, T, but I get the point.

about your buildings/situations where screening is occurring is where I agree with places like the Airport at the checkpoint to the terminal and courthouses. Businesses on the other hand, let them make their own decision. If a business states it is a gun free zone, I'll just respect that and not goto that business and not support them. Government should keep its hands out of business affairs in this as its the business choice. Don't force them one way or another. It's private property at that point.

As the withdrawal of Afghanistan begins, the CPS should start interviewing BLACKWATER and other mercenaries who will be out of work for study hall monitors and guards in the Killing field schools they could moonlight as negotiators with the local gangsters a job they are overqualified for but some of them may be patriots!

I see You know George Zimmerman personally so you can call him a idiot. Why not let the case go through the court system and see what happens. I hope your not a Minister that councels people on their behavior. You IMHO have convicted someone before a trial.

I do a lot of traveling in Indiana and Michigan to Florida. I know a lot of you people do too. Look around at the people in those states you are probably the only one not carrying a firearm and your safer there than you are here. Firearms are all over the United States. No one has spoken that if people would keep their hands off other people things like this wouldn't happen. I was always taught if you commit a crime you bad things could happen to you. The city of Chicago has a problem with people thinking they can do whatever they want and get away with it. Beating people robbing store mob actions no one is stopping that the jails are full. They let them out and it starts again we are the laughing stock and the butt of all jokes because of this. What happens when the monies stop coming to Chicago because of the lawless acts of these people and its coming. The only ones getting rich off this are the LAWYERS. We are the victims every time this happens even if it isn't you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Mac Miller. We disagree on a lot, however, we agree on one really important thing that could make a big difference for everyone involved. You said: As for the guns, make the guns activate only to the person it is registered to. Think 007 Skyfall...I know, as a gun owner, that I would be willing to pay more for that awesome safety feature. Adam could not have been able to use those guns registered to his mother. Food for thought."

Yes, I was actually chewing on that last night. Thought about Skyfall, and the fingerprint feature at the grocery store checkout (instead of a PIN)...why can't a gun have a fingerprint lock? It probably can. But gun owners must create a demand for it. How to create a demand for a feature many won't be willing to pay more? Tie safety to the cost of gun insurance. If you have a fingerprint lock, your insurance is a lot less.

I also thought about how lethal a gun is. The last thing I want for my daughter is for her to shoot someone and live with that. What if gun manufacturers put more effort and technology into defensive weapons that don't kill, but stun or blind or tranqulize. If a tranquilizer gun can temporarily put down a tiger, I would think we could come up with something for an angry human.

Then you could have your eye for an eye. As things stand now, the crazies always shoot themselves first. What if we could just knock them out and have them suffer the consequences?

Problems with the gun to be used that type safety issue is how do you teach someone else how to shot. costs in selling firearm. Any system can be buy passed. Gun Mfrs. are working on systems like this but they have many costs drawbacks to them
adams mother taught him how to shot with those firearms aslo so he would have been cleared to shot them anyway if they had this type of safety issue on them.

Fingerprint or other personalized locks are a problem, even if it could ever work without reliability issues. No one else in the family can use it to defend against a violent attack. No other authorized lawful user could use it.

Mac Yes stun guns are illegal. the problem with them is most are bigger and more bulky than a handgun. Then you have to be a better shot with them than a handgun. darts must go in and through cloths. For personal safety i would recomend a hand held tazer also not allowed in IL. I think. IMHO I think a lot of people would like a hand held tazer for safety if they new more about them. I have one kept in another state that allows them when I go there.

Hi Skully, yes thank you for the hornet spray idea--cheap, legal, effective but not lethal, and I don't even have to conceal it! I've got hornet spray and I'm not afraid to use it! I used some last summer on wasps and it blasted a powerful stream as high as the garage roof. I also thought a fire estinguisher might be a good idea. Keep it under the bed--apparently more people die each year from a blunt object than a gun (I've heard), so my chances are probably better.

I checked Amazon for tasers. Some of them look just like guns; others like cell phones and flashlights. 7.8 million volts, ouch. It CANNOT however, be shipped to my Illinois address. Now THAT is something we can all agree on needs to be changed, right? Can we start there?

My sister in Virginia and my other sister in California can both have tasers that look like cell phones and pepper spray that looks like lipstick, tomorrow wtih free super-saver shipping. I'll be the one with the hornet spray til further notice.

You will find info if you google the proposed bill google IL. HB0997 This is what's proposed. Some states allow carry in bars,you are not allowed to drink alcohol when you carry. Hope this helps with your questions

Sorry, I have no idea

Butch,
Why are the majority of women who are heavily tattooed over weight?

Hi Paul S--Well I did something nutty (you said referencing God is a gun debate is nuts).. I just searched for "guns" on OpenBible just to see what would come up. I was expecting no results. Here are the first few results:

Matthew 26:52-54 ESV Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled?”

Exodus 22:2-3 ESV If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

Matthew 5:1-48 ESV “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. ...

Romans 12:19 ESV Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

I thought this one might come up: Exodus 20:13 ESV You shall not murder.

You make the usual liberal arguement: anyone who does not agree with you is a nut! You had better hope this country never experiences a real coast to coast national emergency. When the storm hit New Orleans the police rounded up all private owned firearms and the unarmed common person suffered not only from the bandits but from the police and other government officials. I am sure the victims were praying for God to send someone to help them and wishing they were armed so they could help themselves.

With all due respect, Paul, your arguments are naive. Please read some history and understand how free states become tyrannies--it happens all the time. Naomi Wolf wrote a great book detailing this several years ago--"The End of America". Great read.

Wanting "the planet to have less guns" and having a realistic plan to achieve that are two very different things. Many people much smarter than you or I have written many great tomes on how to best achieve peace for all people. None suggest disarming everyone, for the simple reason that they live (or were living) in reality and trying to come up with actual solutions. Thinking persons recognize human nature and likely outcomes of actions rather than rushing in to ill-thought out feel good plans.

Yes I think people would be suprised how many Law abiding cirizens carry now. I do know a few. I used to years ago,many Cops new it and didn't care. It was not around here.
In talking to people that grew up around west Kendall county they say it was no big deal to see hunting rifels in racks (pickups) at high school during hunting season. Times do change

I have to agree with you. Many people are out there carrying illegally. The problem is that it is only illegal in Illinois and they would be innocent anywhere else.

I'm pretty much tired of these posts. This one and recent similar ones have been running for a long time and dominated by half a dozen people who have a lot of free time on their hands to come up with some pretty absurd arguments.

I'm moving on.

Skully, I grew up in New York (the state, NOT the city) and my shotgun was almost always in the back window of my unlocked truck in the school parking lot, along with a lot of other rifles in other vehicles... Yes, times have changed and not really for the better...

Must be in the Naperville water

@ Cheryl Thinning the herd eh, does that mean u won't be in Vera's anti abortion vigils? Concerned has to move on he-she is exhausted after he she reads words that are not in his five -six word unimaginative expletives!

COB,
You're saying that its stupid to believe that the police won't protect you? The Newtown victims were well-protected by the police were they? Anyone that believes that the police can protect everyone is delusional.

I agree. The courts have long ago stated that you do not have any legal recourse when the police fail to protect you or your family. They try, but cannot be everywhere and some commnuities ( Iam sure you can name them) have poor and corrupt police departments. The police are only minutes away when seconds count. Iwish there was a better way for a family to protect itself, but now that the horse is out of the bar so to speak, I really do not know what that would be.

Bob The sole purpose of a gun is to kill self protection,hunting and used in war times Now there are shooting events,collecting as well millions are spent and made

Cars are made for transportation Now there is racing,collecting as well millions are spent

I don't like the car/gun stuff but as you can see things change

hey Chronicles of babs, get out off the library computers. Stop believing what bloomberg writes. The truth is out there!

COB,
Wrong again. Firearms are generally designed to injure and/or stop a threat. They are not designed to kill. The military, in fact, chooses firearms which will leave injured enemy on the battlefield, so that it requires resources to care for them. Of course that does not include the firearms that were designed PURELY for target shooting/sport.

And why would a TPARTY law abiding vigilante want to venture into the Killing fields? Bet u leave yer flaming cross and White robes and masks at home sweet home! I do that at least twice a week going from !30th to the Loop and then to the near West side still here but then again i am not going there to purchase CONTRABAND or do anything illegal how bout u? And I leave the heavy Arty and mortars in the trunk, not a good idea to have them in plain sight right?

I work on the west side every day... stop with ylur stupidity.

All you liberal "NO GUN" sign toters, how about putting your address up here for everyone to see you don't believe in guns...let the criminals know they're entering a gun-free home that they're in complete control of....and please don't be a hypocrite and call the police to come save your dumb ass...they carry guns, instead try to talk to the crooks over a nice hot cup of tea. Best wishes.

Illinois has no state preemption of local laws, which mean individual counties may exempt themselves completely from state restrictions. Several county district attorneys have stated that they will no longer enforce state concealed carry restrictions. This effectively means that these counties have constitutional carry. Extreme caution is urged however as gun attitudes vary wildly by county, from pro-gun attitudes in rural counties to extremely anti-gun attitudes in urban counties such as Cook County (Chicago). Anyone considering concealed carry in Illinois is urged to determine the specific laws in the county in which they plan to carry.

BUTCH
Wise up to the facts here they are in BLACK & WHITE!!!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5JbAO5_NMw
This is the the real truth causing the problems, BROTHA

@Jay what is wrong with the internet is the cartoons are as goofy as your posts and utube contribution, have u figured out how to leave home yet without the cross setting your car on fire?

MAC.M
Don't blame Amanda she's doing a good job.
She cannot psychoanalyze and weed out all the psychotic
*&&^%^%$#@ fools that post here.

Mac, FYI this article is posted across 30+ suburban Chicago sites. Butch is not a commenter from Downers Grove (most of them aren't, actually) so I don't have much jurisdiction unless he violates our terms of use. We put articles out there hoping for intelligent conversation, but this is the Internet and we can't control everything that's posted.

Butch and Mac...you may not share the same views and that's what keeps America interesting. Nobody should be banned for what they write unless they are using profanity, etc. And two things you both should be able to agree on is that Amanda does a good job and she's also very pretty!

Butch,
Just because you went to an all girls school shouldn't mean you can't still play hockey.

Fewer guns means fewer shootings, legal or not. FEWER, not none! Why are you gun whiners so bad at math?

Funny. According to your logic we'd be safer disarming the police and military.

Illinois has the strictest gun laws and the highest violent gun related crimes.

When you get to the middle, what direction are you facing?

Good point to remember before you flip another motorist the bird.

@ concerned what's the middle? Like everything else u goofed that up, does your half wit mind mean Center?

@ pssst50
go down to the alley going west out of W Palm Beach next time where the prisoners and illegals are in the fields not swamps, it is there they privatized the prisons like Az,to local TPARTY magistrates, Wardens and Governors and other petty officials.These scum OUTSOURCE anyone in their jurisdiction for $$ pay them 50 cents hr to ranchers, farmers and other campaign contributors, the FED'S in the past got into the act by experimenting on them like they were POW in KOREA (MANCHURIAN CANDIDATES) called MK ultra in the day before the Pentagon papers blew the whistle on it, I bet AZ TPARTY prisons still do! IT is just called mind control now! So much to learn so little time aren't u a bit pssed u wasted it all?

Sorry, we can't blame all that's wrong on hollywood and video games! We have crooks running the government. We have broken families, single parents having to work 2 jobs just to feed their kids, the poor (Too poor to send their kids to the movies or buy them video games). Many of these poor kids choose crime for fast money, something they never had growing up. It's easy to point a finger at a fraction of the populace and say this is why everything is wrong (very liberal thinking), a little bit of fantasyland.

@ Kari I got a M2 90MM if that counts!
I'll show u mine if u show me yers?

Yes...in an ideal world...never has been and never will be. Too many variables!

Amen!

not to play devils advocate or anything, but as kookoo as the guy is, I believe it's another poster that was calling everybody "idiot". A couple us commented about it. I may be wrong, because I skip over his/her posts most of the time.

@Bob Laird, if u mean me and u skip over my posts how are u going to catch up on the times wasted under the ice?

@ Chris, IS THIS A PLAN?
all we need to do is make it a long time in hard time for ANY CRIME with a gun and more with a WMD like street sweeper, Kash,M- 4 carbine,AR 15 etc..
Then we finish up with BANKSTERS and Corp laundering money or trafficking in Guns such as what the GOP before they were the TPARTY did in the basement at 1600 ( white house) when we had a GOP POTUS with Alzheimer's for those who never read anything but the comics and or slow on the trigger or with a damaged amyglia,i feel yer pain!

Haha! I didn't even bother to read BUTCH'S comment, but I'm sure it didn't make one bit of sense. His posts on other articles have also been completely nonsensical. Based on prior comments he has left (i.e. Illinois Takes Step Toward Gay Marriage) were pretty sick and twisted. The site admin should ban him...

Put a bird on it......

Butch probably IS one of the site administers. They delete a lot of harmless stuff from everyone else but let this lunatic ramble on.

BRAD DRAKE
BINGO...That just may be him at his home /compound in Pullman!!!!

I wouldn't waste my time talking to Butch. He's obviously got a lot of issues. Must not have gotten enough attention from his mama. I would guess that this guy was not breast fed.

I hear you were born on a farm. Any more in the litter?

Butch If you don't know you are not a well iformed firearms owner. Saftey course.paperwork,fingerprints,background check and money. Easy to do
A 90MM I don't think you own any type weapon

If you were twice as smart as you are you'd still be stupid.

Butch,
You could not get a concealed carry permit from Florida or anywhere else because you are insane.
Anybody that does not suffer from mental illness can get a Florida concealed carry permit, no matter what state they live in, as long as they meet the states requirements. Florida permits are honored in many other states as well.
Here is the link:
http://www.usacarry.com/florida_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

I agree with you totally. The purpose of these posts is really for the editors to report inflated number of hits to the site for their advertisers(?) and superiors.

Most of the half dozen or so people who participate view the site hundreds of times a day to argue their nonsense. They might only visit the site once a day without them and the number of hits reported would be miniscule.

These people need to get up off of their butts and join a health club or something more productive than what they do all day going back and forth.

The editors throw out the same arguments based on which ones got the most response from these losers. The whole gun argument has been presented in different disguises quite a few times her.

Now that I think about it, I'm not interested in this site anymore!

Other that the fact that we ARE the government, thank you for proving my point. Remember "Rev", we're not laughing WITH you.

So, Old.....I should depend on you? Riiiiight, of course since you are of the "where are my food stamps" crowd, I guess more government works for you.

I hope that your "RUST BELT" is the name you and your fellow inmates have given to the fence that surrounds the institution that you have been placed in.

try to cease from pandering your wacky politics will you? Like I said, an illegible insult in progress. Can you not stay on one topic at a time?

Don't care where Butch is as long as it is nowhere near where I am. I only stop by to point out his insanity.
I would never actively try to find him nor would I want to find him. I try to stay away from crazy people.

@Tom have u ever thought about changing AMMO?

John sorry you feel that way. But were you going to go we are the only state that doesnt have ccw you will be surrounded buy people with guns. I travel all over the country and they don,t have half the problems as we do and they have ccw. The fact that people are afraid of this is they are uniformed. When you travel out of state look arround your probably the only one unarmed so good luck looking for some were you can feel safe

The 2nd Amendment is an individual right, not a right reserved for government sanctioned entities like military, police or even the national guard. Insinuating that 'well regulated militia' was included to protect the rights of these groups (in the Bill of Rights mind you - right between free speech and no quartering) because there was a fear that the people would see these organizations disarmed is absurd. This is basically what you are saying when you attempt to interpret the 2nd as anything less than an individual right.

Jeff is absolutely correct. The Second Amendment protects an individual's right to bear arms without regard to whether he/she is connected with an organized militia. The United States Supreme Court settled that issue in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008).

John,
It's the violent criminals that are the problem, not citizens in general. The 8 MILLION licensed, trained, law-abiding concealed carry permit holders in 49 states are not a problem.

No one is saying CCW is a recipe for mutual respect. It is a protective measure against violent predators.

@ Ernie - I'm not calling into question the 8 million. As for the State of Illinois | City of Chicago the governing authorities, they will @#%%% this up. One governor when to Jail because a Driver License Scam, so now they just give it to anyone.

My contention is simple, I don't trust the idiot citizens and I sure as hell don't trust authorities to administer this. This has nothing to do with "Rights". But everything to do with how (and who) will handle this. Madigan has not said (1) word in public where he stands on the issue. Just wants to hold public hearings so each side can best voice their opinion, fair enough.

Yeah John,
But citizens have rights. Calling citizens "idiots" seems less than constructive.

Distrusting the politicians, OK. Distrusting everyone?

What you call inane, i CALL FOIA and enlightenment so who cares what you think of or call anything I or anyone thinks, who gave u the right to have exclusive audacity to question my anything because you personally are not equipped to think what I think, I also have the audacity to think yer major hangup has to do with the loneliness of being only one of the empty suits and 17,999 other PO BOXES in the Caymans!

Killing Fields/ Ammoland/Tylenol----what the heck are you ranting about?!